Seperation of Church & State

[RaiderWahoo0105]

Seperation of Church & Politics

Post your opinions. I hope to come out of this of a stronger stance in one way or the other (hopefully there is a happy middle ground).

[burton2019]

This is going to end up in a fight.

[RaiderWahoo0105]

I hope not, I hope people could be non-offensive with a topic like this.

[burton2019]

Just wait. You will see.

[imported_hhstigerfan]

This will end up in a fight, because people on either side are always too arrogant to see the other persons point of view.

[burton2019]

Agreed.

[imported_MoonlightGraham]

IMO it is hard for a Christian to say there should be a seperation, however it is hard for an American to say that people have to acknowledge the Bible in society. A classic catch 22 of modern times. One of the main reasons America was founded was freedom of religion, we as Americans can't take that away just because we have strong feelings toward God. That is why I do not have a probelm with this, I believe that your relationship with God should be both private and personal, I am sure we can all think of a handful of hypocrites who can see everyone else's faults (and makes it well known to the public), but can't see the log in his own eye. Actually a parallel quote from both Jesus and Buddha. That being said who are we to judge someone on how they pray or lack there of?

As Earl's former mother -in-law (My name is Earl, an LPD Sports Forum Favorite) said, "Don't judge me."

[CoeburnCane]

Agreed MG...I've said plenty of times on here when you look at guys like Rasputin and Cardinal Richelieu throughout history, when anyone in a religious walk of life attempts to control the course of action in their government, it can often be as underhanded and evil as can be. Why? Because people who are too far into their religion instead of focusing on their relationship with God and Jesus (and for Catholics, the Holy Mother) can rationalize that they're doing sinful things "for God's will and purpose". Religious leaders should stick to what they're supposed to do--lead people to God and help to get souls saved and into Heaven. They should NOT attempt to control government. There shouldn't be any statements on any governmental control or law by the Vatican, the Church of God, the Southern Baptists, the Jewish, the Islamic, etc...as a body trying to influence government. Religious freedom means freedom to WORSHIP as you wish...not freedom to force your doctrine on others, especially when it comes to affairs a religious body has no business dealing with.

Our modern day Rasputin or Richelieu? Has to be guys like these Bishops in this article and Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, James Dobson, etc...Religious men claiming their religion as an excuse to push their own political agendas. It's not right and really and truly I believe against what God wants.

God, being omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent as he is has no need for a Christian president of any denomination in the White House to get HIS agenda done. And isn't that the one that really matters anyways?

[RaiderWahoo0105]

Okay I'll lay things out as I see them and I'll try to take on criticism whether instructive or destructive because if you can think your way through adversity you'll find a position you can be proud of to support and help other find the position they need to support given their own morals.

*Assuming you read the article posted, here's how I want to start stuff out*.
First my flaws: Though I was raised in a Catholic (yes Christian) family, I am not the perfect son. Far from it, I've been a hypocrit many times throughout my life, I've done a lot of wrong. I'm still working on becoming a better person, and I may not ever be completely happy with how morally good I am, but my aim is to gain consistency in the morals I espouse along with how I act in everday life.
That being said...

I think the complicating philosphical matter is creating a distinction between what is morally prudent and what is practically/socially prudent and which sense of prudency to use in the political arena, whether voting or establishing a platform.

Inherently, Church-State seperatoin is a good thing given the history of the world. Take for example Medieval Catholic Italy or Early Protestant England. In both cultures people unfairly used religion for the sake of political gain and to coerce people based on "divine right". Putting power in the hands of the people is what modern society prides itself on because it prevents this immoral and unfounded use of religion for personal gain.

But what happens when a democratic political system is in place, one of secular basis, based on majority rule. The beauty of the democratic system of rule is that people are respected as individuals and it is in no one's place to dictate what morals a person has, so long as he/she does not harm their fellow man in doing so.

Fast forward a couple hundred years of social/political evolution...
You are in the position of being a voter for the office of president in a bipartisan political system. You are a pereson of religious background and one party supports your views and the other party supports the exact opposite.

The problem of the matter is, the other party that supports your oppositve view on the moral matter supports your views on a vast array of other things (make stuff up just so the argument works... to not change focus of the argument lets say this second party supports something that is easily agreed upon like human rights in general for law-abiding citizens). But the first party doesn't cover your views with respect to these other things as well as the second party does.

The problem is that because you are a man of faith and religious background, the one moral issue that the first party supports is recognized by your religion as the foundation of the entire faith.

Here's where the matter got complicated for me. The Republican party is pro-life but is in complete disagreement with a lof of my beliefs on social justice and even some of my partical notions of monetary policy and such.

Which do you give more precedent? Your religious morals or your practical intuition which you know would benefit a lot of other people?

[RaiderWahoo0105]

In response to: Why? Because people who are too far into their religion instead of focusing on their relationship with God and Jesus (and for Catholics, the Holy Mother) can rationalize that they're doing sinful things "for God's will and purpose".
- Just to dispel a quick myth - the Holy Mother is not the center of the Church. The Holy Trinity is. The Mother of God is just looked at in espeically HIGH regard. She is not of "God" status, but she's seen as an example of how good Christians should act and serve